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Is the HTC Touch Diamond better than Apple iPhone? Vodafone UK say yes

Now this has really put a smile on my face, and still smiling now. I love the iPhone 3G from Apple also love the HTC Touch Diamond, I know which one I will be choosing but Vodafone has put something really interesting on their official HTC web page which is under the business section.

On their site Vodafone has said and quote: “Feature rich Windows Mobile 6.1 device utilising HTC’s new Touchflow UI. This device is in a tablet form factor meaning it is touch screen only. The Diamond surpasses the iPhone in all aspects; the key differentiator is the inherent flexibility of the Diamond. It comes loaded with Vodafone Email Plus and the Vodafone Sat Nav program.”
So they are clearly saying that the HTC Touch Diamond is better than the Apple iPhone, they did say “iPhone” now that could be the first one or the 3G version who knows. To me it seems Vodafone are a little peed off and want to get the HTC Touch selling, but hey business is business and there is a lot of money to be made in the mobile phone industry, so fair play and let it come down to let the best man/woman win. Personally Vodafone seem a little annoyed that O2 UK has the exclusive rights to the iPhone.

What are your views on this “Is the HTC Touch Diamond better than Apple iPhone? Do you agree with Vodafone?

Source – Vodafone

Comments

28 thoughts on “Is the HTC Touch Diamond better than Apple iPhone? Vodafone UK say yes”

  1. Mark Lomas says:

    Email and Sat-Nav is their ‘killer feature’?

    It’s worth remembering of course, that the Diamond simply tries to layer iPhone-like functionality on top of Windows Mobile – an OS that is not built as a touch OS, suffers from a serious lack of applications, and is not going to be updated going forward (until you buy a new one).

  2. Anthony says:

    Yeah but at least you can cut and paste text on the Diamond. You can also run applications in the background. There are way more applications available for the WinMo OS. Oh and the browser can play flash video. Also you aren’t forced to use AT&T and pay over $70/mo with the Diamond. Both seem like good phones that are not without their flaws. You can’t really go wrong with either.

  3. Mark Lomas says:

    @Anthony:
    Features like cut & paste are not deal-breakers, nor in fact, is background application support – something that can place a drag on battery life. Sure, Windows Mobile lets you close programs – if you navigate through to a tucked away part of the settings panel – something that isn’t very elegant.

    As for the Apps on Windows Mobile – sorry, but they’re poor quality, overpriced, and largely invisible – Apple are actually going out of their way to engage with developers, foster a community, build rich high quality applications, and then help distribute them.

    I don’t know about AT&T (I’m in the UK), they do seem to be the biggest problem for the iPhone in the US – thankfully we’re getting a fairly good deal here on O2, so I don’t have a problem switching.

  4. Andrew says:

    Mark, your comment is made like a true anti-Microsoft type – lets be honest MS have more experience of UI’s on mobile devices and the range of features and functionality in the Touch Diamond makes the iPhone look like the poor relation it is.

    As for your observation about a serious lack of applications – I don’t know where you are looking but I see far more Win apps than Apple apps out there!

    And updates – again the fact MS op system is up to 6.1 suggests the opsys has had a number of updates (and I for one have updated devices a number of times including my TYTN-II from Win 5.0 to Win 6.0).

    This blend of HTC and MS looks quite stunning, out performs the iPhone in almost every area – and is on my acquisition list in the next couple of weeks.

  5. Mark Lomas says:

    @Andrew

    Anti-Microsoft? Hardly. Windows networking is my chosen profession for over 10 years, I’m sat writing this message here on my Windows Vista computer – and I should advise that I’m no Apple-freak, I did not, for example, rush out to buy the first iPhone.

    Microsoft’s experience of UIs on mobile devices is indeed long standing – but they’ve failed to branch out much beyond the stylus concept. As for Applications – I did clarify that already, the applications out there are largely invisible, poor quality, and often overpriced – how many people out there are regularly hitting online stores to get a fix of new apps for their Windows Mobile Phone?

    Applications are going to be crucial for the next generation of smartphones – there’s just no way manufacturers can hope to get what is basically a PDA into the hands of regular consumers if they can’t convince people that these devices are useful beyond the in-built features. In the long run people are going to find such devices allot more useful if they can extend the functionality by getting their hands on great mobile apps.

    On Windows Mobile – the user has to go out, and find these apps – how many of them know where to find them? It’s not as if stores are brimming over with such programs, nor are there any obvious websites that people flock to. People just don’t want to ‘go shopping’ for mobile software. The App store delivers an appropriate service for the level of software to be distributed, gives that software visibility, and makes it easy for people to get it.

    It should be clear at this point, that we’re really talking about the phone as a ‘platform’ – Apple want developers to see their iPhone OS as a platform. Google are pushing Android, and Nokia’s purchase of Symbian and subsequent ‘opening up’ of that platform, shows how important it is to them to keep their platform relevant. What are Microsoft doing to promote their platform? Very little – and it’s the end users that will ultimately lose out.

    OS updating is patchy on mobile phones at best – my O2 XDA Stella (basically a rebranded HTC device, WM 6.0) has no updates as yet, and I’d be willing to bet that if there are any to come, I’ll be waiting a while – it was the same for my previous Orange M600 – WM 5.0 – no updates during the 18 month contract. You’re at the mercy of the device manufacturer AND (in the case of carrier-customized devices) the network operator.

    As for the blend out-performing iPhone, well, if you feel the phone is right for you, then that’s fine, and I don’t think the iPhone on it’s own is ‘way better’ than anything else (again, I didn’t rush out and get the first iPhone – it had no apps) – but I think that the combination of software that will be released for the iPhone, and the ease at which people are going to be able to get their hands on that software will create the perception that the iPhone is a more useful handset.

    Android or Symbian could of course steal developer share (being as they are, more open platforms) – and if that happens and the Apps are better on those platforms, then I’ll switch to them – I really don’t care who makes it so long as it provides value to me.

  6. geng says:

    1. Windows networking is my chosen profession for over 10 years
    2. I’m sat writing this message here on my Windows Vista

    both of these IMHO doesn’t do you credit

    as for me – HTC Diamond (as soon as any Pocket PC) obviously much better than iPhone. At least I can install my favorite PIM, my favorite email client, my favorite text reader, Skype/ICQ/Jabber/MSN client, favorite GPS software, I will be able to change shell, and so on, and so on, and so on…

    Just imagine… with 3G I will be online and reachable by any MI client 24 hours a day, I will check my email every 1-5-10 minute, I will be able to get incoming Skype calls and all of that I can do while using my GPS or anything else

    for me it sounds great…

  7. Mark Lomas says:

    @geng

    “both of these IMHO doesn’t do you credit”

    Really? In what way? Why is this some big problem? Is there some other way that I’m meant to be communicating that I’m not a newbie in the computing world besides stating my profesional credintials? Perhaps you’d like a copy of my CV?

    As for the remainder of your points – you say that the HTC diamond is ‘obviously’ much better than the iPhone, but either don’t say how, or state features that the iPhone indeed /does/ have.

    Your main point seems to boil down to the fact that Windows Mobile already has a large library of applications (GPS software, IM software and .. actually you didn’t really say much else besides naming Skype). Whilst this is true, most end users don’t tend to use third party applications on their phone. GPS is a notable exception, but on the whole most Windows Mobile software is usually invisible, poor quality, and expensive for what it is.

    By contrast, Apple are bridging the gap between users and applications through the App Store – Whilst I wouldn’t want to suggest that in 12 months time there will be more applications for the iPhone, I certainly would be willing to bet that the applications that are available will be of a higher calibre, and more people will be using their iPhones for more software than is the case on Windows Mobile.

  8. Mark Hogan says:

    I can’t be bothered to read this clearly heated argument. At the end of the day, Apple copied HTC with a system built in a different way. The Diamond has better specs than the iPhone 3G, but worse marketing. They’ll probably sell in roughly equal equal numbers, like their predecessors (the iPhone and HTC Touch).

  9. Mark Johnson says:

    Info for Mark Lomas – you may already know this, but there is a WM6.1 ROM update for your stellar on O2’s site.

  10. HugoDiamondOwner says:

    I own a HTC Diamond and I long considered before buying or not HTC or iPhone 3G.
    Points that I considered:
    1there is quite a variety of GOOD progs available for wm6( and FREEWARE ), far less available for iPhone ( the appstore has a couple, most of them are games or rss feeds )
    2HTC sends MMS ( even though I don’t use it very often )
    3camera is 3.2Mpixels on HTC while 2MPixels on iPhone
    4Compatibility sync between htc and pc is to my knowledge better than Iphone, I link to Thunderbird(free) instead of having to buy Outlook
    5Internet experience is similar on both devices
    6I personally like the diamond faceted design of htc over the iPhone
    After about a month of trial on htc I must say that I expected more prompt response on some commands, overall however it’s very user friendly, I use my phone as a work tool and it’s great, internet mobile, sms writing very simple and easy, good photos, the calender works fine, to me it’s a bit incomplete but I was used to my Palm TungstenT3 which is still unbeatable in speed and practicality in everyday use( calender, tasks and agenda )
    To my opinion HTC Diamond and iPhone are similar, as a work phone I think HTC takes the lead and this is why I bought it. Choose one or other according to your needs.

  11. Mark Lomas says:

    @ Mark Johnson

    My mistake – I incorrectly stated it was an XDA Stella I have – in fact it’s an Orbit 2 – no update is yet available to 6.1.

  12. Mark Lomas says:

    @ HugoDiamondOwner

    Some of your points there are good ones, some are simple matters of Windows Mobile’s longer prescence on the market place, but I must inquire about point 5.

    Have things moved on considerably for Pocket IE in WM6.1? I have a WM6 device, so I don’t know if things have been updated, but certainly the experience i have is that Pocket IE’s approach to rendering is pretty poor compared to the iPhone.

  13. Mark Hogan says:

    The author of the last comment is fairly ignorant. How can you have commented so much here, and not know about the specially-designed version of Opera Mobile 9.5 on the HTC Touch Diamond? PIE is still on the device, but it’s not set up to do anything by default. By the way, apparently the next version of PIE is going to be a huge improvement (I still think Opera Mobile will be better though). Check out Deepfish (http://labs.live.com/deepfish/), if you want to see what Microsoft are up to in terms of mobile web browsing.

    I’m just reading through some of your comments…
    “As for the Apps on Windows Mobile – sorry, but they’re poor quality, overpriced, and largely invisible” – Obviously you’ve never been for forum.xda-developers.com or similar websites…
    They don’t just make cool free apps there – they make whole ROMs. There’s quite a good selection of ROMs for the Touch Diamond already.

    “It’s worth remembering of course, that the Diamond simply tries to layer iPhone-like functionality on top of Windows Mobile”
    It has nothing to do with functionality. TouchFLO 3D is not a function. It’s about usability. Surprisingly, the original TouchFLO was scientifically proved to beat the iPhone’s interface for speed and ease of use (it gets you the application you want faster, on average). Also, TouchFLO is older than the iPhone. Therefore, if anything, the iPhone tries to copy TouchFLO-like usability. And just to leave you in no doubt about the superior UI, TouchFLO and TouchFLO 3D are designed such that you can hold and use the device with one hand. The iPhone is designed for two hands.

    I can’t be bothered to look at any more – you get my point. Research this stuff before

  14. Mark Lomas says:

    @Mark Hogan.

    Ahh, so Opera ships on the device by default huh? Doesn’t that tell you something about what HTC think about Pocket IE? It tells me that they found it severely lacking. If it ships by default – great, I’ll be sure to check it out on my own Windows Mobile based device (I do have and use them, just in case you hadn’t yet realised that). As for future versions of Pocket IE in WM7 – well, until I can get the thing in my hand and try it for myself, I’ll reserve judgement.

    As for the websites you referenced – are Microsoft shouting about these sites from the rooftops? No. Are they linked to by default in Pocket IE? No. Are these sites ‘hot-shortcuts’ /anywhere/ in WM _by default_? No – hence the average consumer doesn’t just magically ‘know’ about these sites either. Microsoft need to go out of their way to push these sort of sites a whole hell of allot more than they are at present if they are really serious about promoting WM as a platform.

    As for the functionality of TouchFlo being ‘scientifically’ proven to ‘beat’ the iPhone – care to link to that? What ‘scientific’ process was used exactly?
    Oh, and what better research could I do before posting than actually use one of these devices for myself? I /have/ a device equipped with TouchFlo right here with me!
    However, the HTC Touch Diamond has TouchFlo 3D. Neither of these is particularly impressive. The version of TouchFlo on my O2 XDA Orbit II is a thinly veiled set of shortcut screens, bad scrolling support, and bad text entry.

    TouchFlo 3D may be visually more appealing but .. speedier? I think not – the videos I’ve seen shows an interface that cannot act on a gesture until that gesture has been completed – compare that to the near real-time gesture support of the iPhone, and I think it’s pretty clear which one is speedier and easy to use.

  15. David says:

    @mark lomas

    The new rom update released yesterday by htc resolves all speed issues with flow interface.

    I have been using the htc for about a month now and am still in awe of it. I was going to buy the new iphone but its specs are unimpressive and its market share poor.

    Written from my diamond

  16. Mark Hogan says:

    “If it ships by default…”
    I just told you that it ships by default.

    “As for future versions of Pocket IE in WM7 – well, until I can get the thing in my hand and try it for myself, I’ll reserve judgement.”
    Like I said – if you’re interested, try out Deepfish.

    “No – hence the average consumer doesn’t just magically ‘know’ about these sites either.”
    If that’s the case, then I’ve never met an average consumer.

    “Microsoft need to go out of their way to push these sort of sites a whole hell of allot more than they are at present if they are really serious about promoting WM as a platform.”
    Undoubtedly, but don’t forget that you’re comparing their marketing to Apple’s ruthless blanket marketing.

    “As for the functionality of TouchFlo being ’scientifically’ proven to ‘beat’ the iPhone – care to link to that? What ’scientific’ process was used exactly?”
    Go and find it yourself. I’m not your slave. The scientific process used was the average amount of time it took to access a list of functions. They showed that while Apple has clearly optimised the path to some functions, others are hidden away as a consequence. TouchFLO doesn’t really let you do anything as fast as the fastest-to-reach functions on the iPhone, but it doesn’t consequently hide other functions away.

    “The version of TouchFlo on my O2 XDA Orbit II is a thinly veiled set of shortcut screens, bad scrolling support, and bad text entry.”
    That’s the whole point. TouchFLO is a fancy way of both shortcutting and avoiding the WM UI. The scrolling support is not bad – the reason behind the unsmoothness is that it’s easier to see what’s scrolling past (in case, for example, you’re looking for something). Text entry has nothing to do with TouchFLO.

    “TouchFlo 3D may be visually more appealing but .. speedier? I think not – the videos I’ve seen shows an interface that cannot act on a gesture until that gesture has been completed – compare that to the near real-time gesture support of the iPhone, and I think it’s pretty clear which one is speedier and easy to use.”
    Again, you’re missing the whole point. It’s not the speed of the UI – it’s the efficiency of the way it’s organised. TouchFLO and TouchFLO 3D have tab-like interfaces (I only say like because the original TouchFLO cube requires gestures rather than the selection of tabs). The most efficient UI component at the moment is tabs (look at IE, Opera and Ffx, for example). The iPhone UI may respond faster, but it’s not designed to be as efficient as TouchFLO. The HTC Touch family has been designed well – everything has been thought about. For example, the devices are always considerbly smaller than the iPhone because they’re designed for one handed use rather than two. They have resistive touchscreens because, although these are less sensitive than capacitive, they are more accurate and therefore have much better handwriting recognition (which is very important in the far east, apparently). However, that is a rather good way of describing the responsiveness of TouchFLO (original and 3D) – it doesn’t respond to some gestures until they’re completed. Having said that, those gestures should be flicks, so if you’re using the device properly you shouldn’t notice any lag.

    “The new rom update released yesterday by htc resolves all speed issues with flow interface.”
    Where can I get that ROM update? HTC are bad at distributing their ROM updates – I’ve never come across any in their e-Club.

    “I have been using the htc for about a month now and am still in awe of it. I was going to buy the new iphone but its specs are unimpressive and its market share poor.”
    Exactly. People fail to realise that the HTC Touch alone almost outsold the iPhone – when the entire family is taken into account, you really start to see that Apple are new to the mobile industry. The iphone 2.0 has been a big flop – the hardware really hasn’t been improved enough for it to compete with the latest Windows Mobile devices (Touch Diamond, Touch Pro, XPERIA X1, etc.). All of the new software features are things that WM has had for ages.

    “Written from my diamond”
    How stylish. 🙂

  17. David says:

    The way to get the new rom is to create an account on the world wide htc site. Register your device. You will find it under the european download link.

    The new rom also adds quad band capability.

  18. Mark Hogan says:

    Ah, thanks. I’m registered on the UK version, which explains the lack of stuff. I’m pretty annoyed that HTC don’t have an Irish version too.

    The UK ROM has been pretty good for me (never really noticed lag…but there are one or two bugs that occur every now and then) – just how much better is the new ROM?

  19. Mark Lomas says:

    “If that’s the case, then I’ve never met an average consumer.”
    Then I suppose it’s good that I have.

    “Undoubtedly, but don’t forget that you’re comparing their marketing to Apple’s ruthless blanket marketing.”
    And the problem with that is…? I thought we were comparing an Apple product to a Microsoft/HTC product afterall?

    “Go and find it yourself. I’m not your slave.”
    Or, how about you actually present the evidence to back up your claims, otherwise all we have to go on is basically your opinion. If this scientific proof exists, show it, link it, prove it – is that too hard? You’re the one making the point, not me.

    Then we have this: “TouchFLO doesn’t really let you do anything as fast as the fastest-to-reach functions on the iPhone, but it doesn’t consequently hide other functions away” closely followed by: “TouchFLO is a fancy way of both shortcutting and avoiding the WM UI.”

    So, which is it? Are we avoiding WM’s UI, or exposing it’s functionality? TouchFLO 3D is /not/ a complete replacement for WM’s UI, in this regard it sees the user moving between a touch-driven UI, and a stylus driven UI, adding complexity and making the overall experience clumsier. As for the iPhone UI ‘hiding’ functionality – er, in what way?

    “Text entry has nothing to do with TouchFLO.”
    Ahh, so… not part of TouchFLO then? Yet another bad overlay of touch technology I must have on my WM phone then!

    The scrolling support is bad in my experience, it’s unsmooth (something I never specifically said, but clearly this is something you’ve encountered also), and has only one-trick, the single-flick gesture. On the iPhone I can do small, slow flicks, long fast ones, or take control and move around with my finger directly – all very intuitive, and it happens almost real-time. This is simply not true with TouchFLO.
    TouchFLO waits for a ‘flick’ to occur, and them emulates scrolling by transferring a set of instructions to WM that basically tell it to scroll down.

    You also state that the iPhone wasn’t designed to be as efficient – er, again, how do you know this? Do you have some access to the Apple design process that shows fundamental flaws in the development of the iPhone compared to the HTC? Or, could it be (as I suspect) that you’re simply forming your own opinion without any actual information about the intended design at all – for example, the relative merits of the touch-screen technology in the iPhone vs WM phones can be debated forever, but each phone has an optimised OS for the technology it is intended for. WM is /designed/ to be stylus driven, and the iPhone is /designed/ to be touch driven (something that’s pretty obvious without access to anyones development processes!) – TouchFLO doesn’t introduce new drivers or APIs – it has to work within the framework of WM – and that’s a stylus driven system. Sure, that will change with WM7, but for now HTC can do as much ‘designing’ as they like – it’s still a stylus driven system they’re working with, hence the reliance on completed ‘large’ gestures, and an over reliance on emulating a touch experience that the iPhone does natively.

    Ultimately, there are plenty of weaknesses in the iPhone without trying to suggest that it’s strengths have been already usurped by the competition. Layering in touch functionality (as TouchFLO tries to do), will never provide the same experience as native touch functionality.

    In any case, this is all very much academic. The real score for the iPhone (as I was getting at somewhere way back in the comments) is that Apple have transformed it, overnight, into a platform – a platform where Apple are engaging developers and then bridging the gap between developers and users to ensure that users are exposed to mobile software – directly from their handsets. That’s a big deal, and changes the iPhone from a one-trick pony that frankly wasn’t very good value before, into a fantastic mobile computing platform. Feel free to ignore that – but Microsoft and HTC clearly aren’t – they take the threat from Apple very seriously; if they didn’t, the phone’s you propose as being better, wouldn’t even exist.

  20. Mark Hogan says:

    Some of your responses are just becoming so stupid that I’m not going to waste my time any more with elaborate responses. I’m replying very briefly, and I don’t intend to come back and defend the Touch Diamond against any other rubbish. Spend your time researching instead of making unverifiable claims, and combining it with hugely biased opinion. Actually, go and research mimetic desire first. Then get back to researching phones.

    “Then I suppose it’s good that I have.”
    You don’t know how many people you’re implying are not average consumers.

    “And the problem with that is…?”
    You obviously don’t know much about the theory behind blanket marketing.

    “You’re the one making the point, not me.”
    You’re the one who has a problem with the point. I can provide the source now, but I don’t see the point. You’re determined to be right, even if you’re wrong.

    “Are we avoiding WM’s UI, or exposing it’s functionality?”
    Quite obviously we’re skating over the dodgy UI to the functionality.

    “in this regard it sees the user moving between a touch-driven UI, and a stylus driven UI”
    There is no stylus-driven UI on the Diamond. Read the reviews. Look at the videos. The stylus is virtually never used. I’ve personally never used mine, nor have I felt even the slightest need to.

    “As for the iPhone UI ‘hiding’ functionality – er, in what way?”
    Certain settings take forever to get into.

    “Ahh, so… not part of TouchFLO then? Yet another bad overlay of touch technology I must have on my WM phone then!”
    WTF?

    “On the iPhone I can do small, slow flicks, long fast ones, or take control and move around with my finger directly – all very intuitive, and it happens almost real-time.”
    TouchFLO can do all of that. You’ve ignored my point about the research HTC did into smooth scrolling.

    “You also state that the iPhone wasn’t designed to be as efficient – er, again, how do you know this? Do you have some access to the Apple design process that shows fundamental flaws in the development of the iPhone compared to the HTC?”
    Yes. Never assume.

    “WM is /designed/ to be stylus driven, and the iPhone is /designed/ to be touch driven”
    Not any more. Seen WM 6.1?

    “HTC can do as much ‘designing’ as they like”
    Hahaha…HTC have done so much designing, it’s really hurting your responses. I’m too lazy to elaborate.

    “it’s still a stylus driven system they’re working with”
    Actually, I don’t think styli work well on it any more.

    “Layering in touch functionality (as TouchFLO tries to do), will never provide the same experience as native touch functionality.”
    What a load of rubbish. You’re confusing the software and hardware differences a lot.

    “That’s a big deal, and changes the iPhone from a one-trick pony that frankly wasn’t very good value before, into a fantastic mobile computing platform.”
    Well done – Apple are allowing third-party software on their device. That’s only years behind Microsoft.

    “the phone’s you propose as being better, wouldn’t even exist.”
    Oh really? HTC released the first member of the Touch family before the iPhone. Either they have a spidey sense, or they were actually thinking the same thing as Apple, in which case, Apple hasn’t really affected what they’re doing.

    Oh, and in case you think I’m being biased or talking rubbish in some way, take a look at my blog. The latest post at the moment is a review of the iPhone, and it’s quite good. But acting as if the iPhone is some sort of omnipotent God is a load of rubbish. The Touch Diamond generally has it beaten, but there are many personal reasons for which people would prefer an iPhone.

  21. Mark Lomas says:

    Again, when it comes to research all I can tell you is that I do actually have experience with both class of devices. I’ve used Windows Mobile / PocketPC devices over a period of many years, accross various product revisions and through lots of different devices. I have a Windows Mobile based HTC device now, and it’s in daily use, along with an iPhone, which is also in daily use.

    “You don’t know how many people you’re implying are not average consumers.”
    Perhaps not – but working with customers that use Windows Mobile devices is part of my job, and once the iPhone was released it was hard to avoid working with people that wanted to use those devices in a corporate environment also.

    “You obviously don’t know much about the theory behind blanket marketing.”
    We didn’t start off by talking about a difference in the types of marketing ,we’re comparing devices, and the approach with those devices.

    “You’re determined to be right, even if you’re wrong.”
    And yet you still fail to present the information that would apparently back up your argument 100% and send me packing.

    “Quite obviously we’re skating over the dodgy UI to the functionality”
    However we still have to use WMs UI quite allot regardless of what HTC add in themselves.

    “The stylus is virtually never used”
    There’s a difference between ‘virtually never’ and ‘never’. It’s still the case that HTC haven’t been able to completely eliminate the need for a stylus, which just goes to show how they’ve done their best – but it’s not quite the same result.

    “Certain settings take forever to get into.”
    Well I guess we’ll just have to disagree on that point. I don’t see anywhere on the iPhone where settings take ‘forever’ to get into.

    “You’ve ignored my point about the research HTC did into smooth scrolling.”
    If we’re talking about how you stated that the unsmoothness was ‘by design’, and how it makes it easier to find information, I don’t see what the point is here. If I scroll in the iPhone then sure, a ‘flick’ will take me past information – but the point is that I might /want’/ to skip past information. When I need to scroll in a slower, more controlled manner, I can.

    “Yes. Never assume.”
    Then I’d thank you to not ‘assume’ that I’m stupid as if you know who I am or what my experience level is.

    “Not any more. Seen WM 6.1?”
    Yes, and it’s very much a .1 step – Microsoft themselves have said that 6.1 is a step forward, but 7.0 is the ‘blow us away’ “iPhone killer” OS.

    “Hahaha…HTC have done so much designing, it’s really hurting your responses”
    I didn’t dispute that they had done designing, my implication here was that their designing can take them a long way – a really long way, but it doesn’t quite go far enough to best the iPhone in terms of a touch interface.

    “What a load of rubbish. You’re confusing the software and hardware differences a lot.”
    I explained myself quite clearly. WM is optimised to be a stylus driven interface, based on the type of touchscreen hardware its intended to work with, this is what introduces the challenges that HTC no doubt set out to overcome with their TouchFLO software – and in TouchFLO 3D they do a very good job. I’m just saying that it isn’t quite good enough to best the iPhone.

    “Well done – Apple are allowing third-party software on their device. That’s only years behind Microsoft.”
    The product itself was years behind Microsoft. No-one said Apple don’t have allot of catching up to do, but their approach to software sure is a damn good way of going about it.

    “Apple hasn’t really affected what they’re doing”
    That’s so much rubbish. It’s plain as day that HTC are striving to make the iPhone irrelevant by developing phones that can do Touch aswell, and I really don’t see how such devices as the Diamond would be around right now if Apple weren’t pushing their product in the way that they are, not to mention the other products out there that are obviously complete rip-offs of the iPhone.
    The iPhone may well still be the underdog on the market in terms of market share, but considering what Apple did to the MP3 player market with the iPhone, no-one wants to just sit by and do nothing.

    “acting as if the iPhone is some sort of omnipotent God is a load of rubbish”
    You clearly didn’t read that part where I conceded that the iPhone is not perfect.
    As I previously said, there are plenty of problems with the iPhone that are completely undebatable – no MMS support, no copy/paste, problems with SMS handling, poor bluetooth implementations, software bugs etc etc. But to say that the primary strengths of the product are actually irrelevant because HTC have ‘designed’ what is basically an addon is just wrong.

  22. Hi There, I was reading all of your comments and just wanted to say that I own an HTC Touch Diamond and my friend owns an IPhone 3G and we did some testing. HTC on Vodafone UK and Iphone as your probably dying to know lol was on O2.
    I’m not going to go through all the test we did becuase i’m not into little arguements over which phone is better but HugoDiamondOwner has the right idea, if your after a phone for business/lesuire and you travel alot so size is an issue then buy a HTC however if your more concerened on following the trend (so to speak) and wanna get rid of your ipod then buy an Iphone….simple!

    Being an HTC owner i’ve got one little snag and i was wondering if maybe one of you guys can help me out…when you reply to a txt on the Diamond, you can only see 1 or 2 lines in the reply box as the keypad takes up most of the screen, is there any way around this? It would be relly helpful if you can help me out??

  23. Mark Hogan says:

    Hahaha…Today I met a guy who was so frustrated with the keyboard on the iPhone 3G that he tried to use a stylus on it. However, the stylus didn’t work at all. Touch Diamond wins! 🙂

    Nathan, I’ve noticed that problem too. It’s not because of the onscreen keypad/keyboard – even when you get rid of whatever you’re using to type, the box is still that size. I’ve just accepted it, because the scroll thing on the side works pretty well. If there’s a registry hack to change the size of that box though, it would undoubtedly be here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/

  24. TomooRosca says:

    Vodafone say that do they? Now that is strange, when I ordered my Touch Diamond from Vodafone Business I was warned by the sales guy that they had been having problems with the TD. He said that many handsets had been returned with complaints that it was very slow and gets quite hot, I decided to ignore hiw warning and go ahead and get a TD anyway. BIG MISTAKE, the handset is so slow when navigating between screens in Touch Flo, slow to respond when you ask it to do anything like composing a new text message. Vodafone then release a new firmware saying that it adresses the speed, well I agree the phone is faster, but now 75% of the Touch Flo features are no longer there. This is the 3rd Windblows powered phone I have had, and it will definately be my last.

  25. Maek Hogan says:

    No features were removed from TF3D – just most of the animations were. Unfortunately, HTC fails to understand that the problem is not with the animations, but the factbthat TF3D only begins to react to gestures one your finger is no longer touching the screen (try it yourself). Meanwhile, composing a new text message has nothing to do with TF3D (well, at least the Touch Diamond version) and I have not seen similar problems on other Touch Diamonds. To be fair, much more powerful WM devices, such as the TG01, seem to struggle with similarly dancy UIs. I think now is the time to switch to Android – that was apparently inspired by, and aimed at, HTC devices.

    (Comment submitted from my Touch Diamond).

  26. Simon Baggs says:

    I have had an HCT Touch diamond for just under a year now and sorry to burst a few bubbles but… it is rubbish. I was sold one by Vodafone on the basis that it could compete with the iphone. I have to say that it is the worst designed mobile I have ever had. From the rubbish touch screen ability, small screen, to the difficulties I have when making calls – it is just a below par phone.

    Vodafone clearly came to that conclusion as their star phone is now a blackberry. I have an 18 month contract and am therefore stuck with the HTC but I am now going to buy a second hand blackberry to tied me over until I can upgrade. I use a blackberry for work and so know that they do the job – the HTC simply does not.

  27. Keith says:

    I have had a diamond for over a yer and been looking at an iPhone and they just cant be compared.

    The Diamond is a slow buggy crashy pile of fustrating rubbish that doesnt even work as a phone …. like every other wm PDA I have had (smartphones seem better)

    The iphone does everything perfectly

    end of

  28. nana says:

    pls don't compere these two phone, apple will be angry,daimond is no where close to the first iphone