iOS 5 public problems and discussions

Wonder how many of you are not at work; are you at work or at home waiting for the iOS 5 to release? Today is a very big day because the new iOS 5 will go live at some point, and when it does we want to be here for you.

We have decided to start our very on dedicated iOS 5 public problems and discussion page, this is a place where all iOS 5 downloader’s can come and discuss anything iOS 5.

Millions will be updating their Apple devices today via iTunes, you may have questions, problems or maybe answers for other readers you would like to discuss. We want this to be one of the popular pages to come to and make it a community base for you all.

We get many thousands of emails a day asking about the new iOS 5, so it makes sense to set up a page for all to lounge in.

If you have a question, or a problem with iOS 5 once it goes live, or maybe you have updated via iTunes and it went smoothly, we want to know all as so do other readers. Get the discussions rolling and head on down to the commenting area below; let’s make this the place to be for iOS 5 public problems and discussions.


1,387 thoughts on “iOS 5 public problems and discussions”

      1. Reply
        Neel says:

        the GM means Golden Master and this is the final release beta for devs… i got all of them and its quite the same thing as the official ios 5. but rather wait cuz its kinda hard for an starter to without an dev account to get the gm working

  1. Reply
    Guest says:

    I waiting for ios5 in germany the whole morning…
    Please Apple, let’s start it now… i can’t wait !!!!

  2. Reply
    Mraja_3 says:

    been up since 8 am as heard it was due to come out at 10am… still nothing. By the way, BE SURE TO UPDATE YOUR ITUNES TO 10.5 or no IOS5 guys!!!!

  3. Reply
    jmay says:

    Its 9pm here in Australia on the 12th of October and i don’t think it will be coming out here until around 1am in the morning on the 13th

  4. Reply
    Chris says:

    I also have the GM.  To me, it feels snappier.  No lag on the 4.  iOS 5 gives the user the ability to manage more of your apps on the phone.  Reminders are pretty decent.  I love the fact you are now able to change your sounds for everything your phone does.  Tweets, ringtones, and messages of any type.  
    It will take a little longer to understand the sync without the cord, but all things aside this update is very good.

  5. Reply
    Hardik says:

    im also gonna update asap downloaded  the new itunes 10.5 before the server goes crazy installing it now 


  6. Reply
    gk says:

    its totally surprising what apple has gotten all of us to do…check for an update early in the morning or late in the night! 6-7 years ago I doubt any of us would have done this!

  7. Reply
    Phil Saunders says:

    Here I sit, like everyone else, hovering over my iTunes ‘check for updates’ button, and I don’t know why. It’s as if I have been brainwashed. I have tons of urgent stuff to do, and I’m not doing it; Instead, I’m waiting for the new operating system for my phone. I don’t need the new operating system – at least – not right now at this instant. The ‘old’ operating system, is perfectly good. And after all this waiting, when I do get the new OS, I know I will blow away the whole day messing about with it. Makes no sense.

    1. Reply
      Anonymous says:

      Great post 🙂 there must be 1000’s of us all over the world doing the same thing

      Although I am leaving it till tomorrow now, kicking the habit !!!!

      The power of Apple

  8. Reply
    Chris says:

    Apple updates for large items are usually set for pacific standard time. So if you are on the east coast, you will have to wait till 1 pm and so on. That is the way it has always been. Find what time 1pm pacific standard and then you will know your update time.

  9. Reply
    PeterH says:

    Can’t believe I have fallen into the Apple trap and keeping hitting the Check for Updates button over and over and over…

  10. Reply
    Apple@TakingForever... says:

    It’s Bloody 11:07pm in Adelaide, South Australia and absolutely bloody nothing whatsoever!!! This is ridiculous…

  11. Reply
    Paul says:

    They have to release it before Friday when the new iphone is out so they need to release it today or there serve is going to crash

  12. Reply
    frank says:

    Helsinki has nothing yet im guessing I will have to wait until about 8pm grrrrr although it has been confirmed Italy has had release

  13. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    its 4.32 pm in Saudi arabia and its still not out yet but how come its already out in italy
    i don understand

  14. Reply
    Paul says:

    You will be able to download it 9am California time this is when you can get it from itunes using there new server icloud going to be fun

  15. Reply
    frank says:

    judging by the worldwide interest in IOS5 i bet the Apple IT guys are checking and double checking the warranties on their servers for when they start melting 🙂

    1. Reply
      Anonymous says:

      Coz they definitely won’t be using their own server hardware or OS…………………………………………

  16. Reply
    Paul says:

    Big Test For iCloud this is the way forward for apple there taking cd drives from there macs so we have to download from icloud not soft

  17. Reply
    sanam suri says:

    Guyz please tell me that itunes 10.5 latest which is available on apple site is sufficient for ios 5 upgrade or something else is required.

      1. Reply
        Kdnskdjk says:

        Sources suggested 12 am California time too but it didn’t come out don’t kid your self believe me i waited ..

  18. Reply
    sanam suri says:

    ok something is happening i am getting error now on iTunes when i click on update i think its going live soon.. INDIA

        1. Reply
          catbird59 says:

          gotta explain why 3 hours for some… The answer: because some places of the world don’t use Daylight Savings Time. California does, so they are one hour later than other parts of the world. Confused yet?

    1. Reply
      sanam suri says:


  19. Reply
    Brett_taylor12 says:

    the time in california is 7:30 so an hour and a half and we will all be updating yeyeyeyeyeeyeyeyeyeye

    1. Reply
      catbird59 says:

      Siri is exclusive to the new iPhone 4S only… hence, will NOT work on any older iphone, including the iPhone 4 and 3GS, etc…

      1. Reply
        Iwantaniphone5 says:

        thanks, looks like a good feature if it works.   Not getting the 4S until Feb so will need to wait.

  20. Reply
    Evrgrntgr18 says:

    hey since we are almost in the same are (im in illinois) does it come out at the same time? im still waiting. 

    1. Reply
      Gabbo says:

      Yeah, how do you know this?? And what does this mean “Apple is checking itunes for correct versions”?

    1. Reply
      Thedrumbumof93 says:

      thats just the next time itunes will look for an update that doesnt mean its going to come out then… but yea mines says the same

  21. Reply
    Bmorse0013 says:

    There should be an app to let users know when the new update is out so we don’t have to wait by the computers

    1. Reply
      Anonymous says:

      Jeezz lads I know we all want the update but come on the tone is getting a bit desperate, after all it’s only a update to a Errr PHONE 

  22. Reply
    Iwantaniphone5 says:

    Paul says Apple are currently checking iTunes versions, it’s going to take a bit of time to get round to everyones houses.

  23. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    really apple got our minds of the hook
    damn we all ve been waiting but the truth apple should be more precise about the date 

  24. Reply
    Paul says:

    Apple only release updates in there time zone which will be 9am there time it will go live there and than follow for everone

  25. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    i ve searched other websites and in italy for some reason they r able to download ios 5 
    if thats true and here someone from italy 
    please confirm this info

  26. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    since we are all waiting
    lets ask questions and kill time, i ve a jealbroken iphone 
    and i wanna update it to the last ios
    is all what i ve to do is to restore and update ??

      1. Reply
        catbird59 says:

        there will most likely not be a jailbreak for ios5 for quite some time. And besides, most things you can do with cydia, you can do with the new ios5 anyway.

    1. Reply
      Jwin21 says:

      Just hook it up to the computer and it will update  Your phone will no longer be jail broken though…

  27. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    its 6:16 pm in Saudi Arabia and its not out yet
    but if its like any other version of ios then it ll be out in 2 hours and 41 mins exactly

  28. Reply
    Naveen says:

    waiting……… waiting…….. and still waiting….. but showing in itunes 4.3.5 is the current version and time is 8:50pm in india

  29. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    or maybe there is a problem with downloading the ios5 in their servers and they cant find steve jobs anymore 
    so i guess they are heading to his grave for some spiritual intel 😀

  30. Reply
    Saad AlQarni says:

    see Paul itsn’t about the country, they are servers for each country and depending on which ones they download the software, it’ll be available for all

  31. Reply
    bob says:

    why does my iphone say it is up to date with version 4.2.1? it is a verizon iphone if that means anything different. I just thought it’d be 4.3.5

        1. Weird. Try restoring the iPhone completely with iTunes. Put the phone into DFU mode (Don’t forget to back up first) and restore it to default settings. iTunes should automatically update it to 4.3.5 unless iOS 5 came out already and it will update to that.

          1. bob says:

            i’m just gonna wait till ios 5 is released and try and update it then. if that doesnt work then i’ll restore it

      1. Reply
        Iwantaniphone5 says:

        ? Not when I live Britain. 
        The reasoning behind this time is that Apple historically have released updates at 10am Pacific Time US – which is 18:00 BST

  32. Reply
    Iwantaniphone5 says:

    The best estimation is that everyone will get the release sometime after 18:00 BST, or after the next 80mins,

  33. Reply
    Paul says:

    Time depends if Apple go live everywhere at once I think the server would crash  we can only see but it will be live in usa in 14 mins

    1. Reply
      Anonymous says:

      3.0 and 4.0 came out in the philippines at the same time as my cousin in San Francisco but I guess there were less users then.

    2. Reply
      Iwantaniphone5 says:

      lol, can picture a PC under somebodies desk servicing the world – I reckon they might have servers around the world

  34. Reply
    Dr. Poopenstein says:

    Alright the German Server also spits out an error message, looks like they’re doing the final preperations

  35. Reply
    Jamie says:

    I hope I’m not the only one sitting at my computer at 9am pressing the “Check for Update” button repeatedly… 

    Cant… wait… any… longer…

      1. Reply
        Jamie says:

        This message: “This version of the iPhone software (4.3.5) is the current version.” officially gets me angry >:(

    1. Reply
      Dr. Poopenstein says:

      Pressing it repeatedly is pointless, just shut off itunes and do something else and then start it in like 30 minutes, if your phone is plugged in it will inform you right away if ios 5 is there

  36. Reply
    Paul says:

    iCloud is expected to launch today (Wed, October 12th) alongside iOS 5 and Mac OS X 10.7.2. Apple released iTunes 10.5
    on Tuesday in preparation. We don’t expect iOS 5 to actually be
    released until later in the day. Apple has historically released their
    major iOS updates around 1pm eastern time.

    1. Reply
      Bikerboyaitch says:

      doubt it somehow, if everything does what it says on the tin then this should be worth the wait…!!

  37. Reply
    Scotty B says:

    Just got it to download!  You have to be on your home network on your original Mac, they are not releasing to Windows based machines for 30 days, as per Apple…

    1. Reply
      mikek says:

      I got mine too!!!  Although I had to use my home Mac and it wouldn’t work on my DELL PC?????  30 day wait time………..WTF????

    2. Reply
      zeppellina says:

      I`m hoping there wil be a fix for the last update which has stopped my ipad from connecting to my wifi…( it connected perfectly for a year before the last update) 
      but I have a windows PC… so.. no new update for 30 days…?
      oh no…..!!!!

  38. @b9aa672fb4f0cd41d62fe361b0c648ff:disqus  I don’t think that’s right! It just sounds wrong. Also, they stated that they will release it for Mac AND Windows on 12 October, plus that iOS is not software for computers, its for your iDevice, so it makes completely no sense.

  39. Reply
    sanam suri says:

    @b9aa672fb4f0cd41d62fe361b0c648ff:disqus you are wrong i checked with my mac pc still no updates. and @facebook-100000334677937:disqus  is correct about the announcement. 

  40. Reply
    fiveoh says:

    With everyone anxiously waiting for the update, how long do you think it will actually take to apply it to the phone?

    1. Reply
      Bob says:

      I’m hoping I’ll be able to do an OTA update from the iOS5 GM version, would be cool to test out that functionality.

  41. Reply
    catbird59 says:

    iOS 5.x: Fifth major OS releasehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_historyiOS 5 was previewed to the public on June 6, 2011.[72] It will be released for iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 (GSM and CDMA), iPhone 4S, iPod touch 3rd and 4th generation, iPad, and iPad 2 on 12 October, 2011 At 11am Pacific Time.

    1. Reply
      fiveoh says:

      I will when i found out for sure if we are in the final minutes of the wait or if it is going to take longer

  42. Reply
    blue5ft3 says:

    iTunes update went beautifully all of my devices updated wirelessly and fast, super fast even while my mac was backing up, boom back online and it updated on the Mac as well, my husband who has an android phone and a PC was pleasantly surprised at how well the iTunes update worked on his PC listening to MY music LOL

  43. Reply
    omni23 says:

    i just want it to come out already!!!!, it is seriously like getting a new phone hahah, for free too 🙂

  44. Reply
    Chrissilvapctech says:

    it showed up and i picked download only and it said resource not available and when i checked for updates again it said up to date 4.3.5

  45. Reply
    catbird59 says:

    If you’ve had your iphone connected to iTunes, you should disconnect it first then re-connect… let it back up, sync, and then check for update. Viola!

  46. Reply
    Greg says:

    Ontario, Canada downloading now… Start out pretty fast but has slowed down significantly… Still moving tho..  Halfway done and showing 5 minutes remaining…  I trust it will be worth the wait…  Wasnt available until about 6 minutes after 1 pm my time…  Good luck everyone…

    1. Reply
      Greg says:

      it has really slowed down now ….  the last two minutes of download have taken over 10 minutes…  patience is a virtue…

  47. Reply
    Clkman52 says:

    Central Time in the USA ….. Tried the suggestion to stop iTunes and unplug the USB to the iPad/iPhone then start  iTunes and plug the USB back in and there it was IOS 5 !!!!!!!!!! Downloading it now !!!!!!   (was just clicking the check for updates button and it didn’t work)…. Try it , you’ll like it !!!!!

  48. Reply
    CH14 says:

    i’m on the 4.3.4 do i have to update to the 4.3.5 first and then to the 5 or i can update directly from 4.3.4 to 5 ????

    1. Reply
      Clkman52 says:

      Stop iTunes, unplug the usb to your iPad or iPhone, start itunes and then plug the usb back in. It should be there …

  49. Reply
    Peter H says:

    Download time keeps getting longer. Up to 60+ mins now. Is this just the way it is because so many people are downloading, or is there another way?

  50. Reply
    Nicki says:

    updating now in uk, but very slow the time remaining keeps going up, never mind at least it’s here woohoo

  51. Reply
    markus1 says:

     downloaded software (in NY).  took about 30mins on work’s bandwidth, so could be slow for others.
    now restoring phone etc.
    not sure about the “wiping of iTunes apps” m,essage i saw though…

  52. Reply
    Gerifeld says:

    the time keeps going up, but i am glad it is working.  I am getting the new iphone friday, but i still want to update my old iphone.

  53. Reply
    David Teper82 says:

    Downloaded well and when it updated it restored factory settings. Still in restore iPhone apps mode. Not sure what happened.

  54. Reply
    Hempmacca says:

    iTunes is just telling me that “the network connection could not be established”. Anyone know what to do?

  55. Reply
    markus1 says:

    here’s my deal: downloaded the software in about 30mins.  another 10mins or so to install, and restore the backup etc.
    I am at work, so all apps, music, pics etc are on my laptop at home. so when it restarted, all those items are gone, and i’ll need to resync when i get home.
    initial thoughts?  dont see the iMessage anywhere (yet!)…i’m hoping this isnt like Facetime where it only works if on a wi-fi network?

  56. Reply
    Singh Iz King! says:

    37 minutes but I have to go work in 15 minutes 😐 I will have to hold off till tonight.. 
    Cant wait tho!

  57. Reply
    Cooky11111 says:

    Mine froze at backing up set there were errors now it is saying it is restoring Iphone firmware…Lovely!  I hope this didn’t mess up my phone.  Anyone else having these issues?

  58. Reply
    macalack says:

    I downloaded ios5. It backed up my device and then it gave me an error.

    This device isn’t eligible for the requested build.

     I have an iPhone 4 on 4.3.5 tethered jailbreak. What gives? Thanks to anyone.

        1. Reply
          Lovekar says:

          I ran into the same issue: Jaibroken iPhone 4 4.3.5 with the same error message, but I resolved the problem.

          First I restored on 4.3.5 and then I updated it. 

          1. Abqcleve says:

            I posted the URL, but it has to be moderated, so may not show for a while. Just go to apple, then click on “Support,” then search on “ios 4.3.5”

          2. macalack says:

            Thanks ABQ. downloading now. DO you think it could have something to do with my host files?

    1. Reply
      Clkman52 says:

      You can’t update a Jail Broken device …. Restore it to the original settings, then update it, then get the IOS 5 Jailbreak if you need it.

      1. Reply
        macalack says:

        Eh, thats not true. YOu can update, the jailbreak is just wiped off by the update. It takes out the partition. I tried restoring and it still gave me the iphone isnt eligible for requested build. I have no idea what’s going on.

  59. Reply
    Chrisgrand says:

    Went through a series of restores, then had me page through the license agreement, itunes login, blah blah blah. It rhen started syncing all my apps. Still going.

  60. Reply
    RN says:

    keep getting the message “network connection could not be established” does this mean the server is backed up and i cant connect?

  61. Reply
    Dizzzay says:

    From the UK started downloading  at 18:08 – got to gone half way and 35 mins to go at 18:40 and then it said network connection timed out. Clicked to start again and tried the whole pausing and resuming and it just started again but is even slower now!!

  62. Reply
    NoopyKat says:

    In Vancouver, Canada. I’m on my second try now. The first time I was able to download the package but when it was trying to either validate the files or unpack everything it failed.

    FYI, if I “pause” the download and then “un-pause” it, all the progress is lost and the download restarts back at 0MB…

    Very strange.

  63. Reply
    Greg says:

    My iPad has 42 gb of audio, video, photos and apps and has been backing up for over an hour after the download…  should I keep waiting or abort and start over…

  64. Reply
    Chrisgrand says:

    Says it is restoring iPhone music and videos… We will see. It was empty on the last reboot. Also, FB does not work. Am going to reinstall.

  65. Reply
    Adam says:

    network connection keeps timing out! 

    Can’t get a full download through, I am on my fifth attempt now ):
    Never reached more than 550 MB, often fails before that. It also delivers slightly slower than my traditional badnwidth speed (I should get about 1.6 MB/s, I got more around 900 kb/s).
    I’m in Denmark 

    1. Reply
      Luke James1990 says:

      im getting the same problem, does anone have a solution to this? im in england if that makes any difference

  66. Reply
    Maarten says:

    Download took about 10 minutes, no problems. When I try to install however Itunes says:
    Cannot be restored, an unkwon failure has taken place (in dutch, pardon my french).

    Anybody else who has this problem?

      1. Reply
        Anthonyp78 says:

        imessage is automatic.
        You need to send an sms to another ios5 user and it will change to an iMessage

  67. Reply
    HARDIK says:

    2 hrs remaining in india its taking too long i have to go to school tomorrow and i know that if a wait for it ill sleep in the morning and not go to school thats bad ! 343 /774 mb done lets hope for the best any one got it installed and set up?

    1. Reply
      stephen says:

      in THE UK ITS ALSO GOING TO TAKE 2 Hrs and i got collage tomorrow just leave your  computer on all night that’s what im going to do 

  68. Reply
    Gavin. says:

    Have downloaded iOS 5 with no problems. When I try to install the software onto iPhone 4 it says that it’s restoring then I’m greeted with ‘The iPhone ‘Gavin’s iPhone’ could not be restored. An internal error occured’ I’m not sure if this is because Apple have obviously been inundated with millions of people trying to get iOS 5. Anyone else seeing the same error message?

          1. Gavin. says:

            Okay thank you all for the replies. I guess we’ll just have to wait it out until some of the traffic dies down!

  69. Reply
    Tony (Staines) says:

    downloaded the update….. eventually finished after timing out several times.

    Trying to do update but backup starts then just stops without any warning.  On third try now

    1. Reply
      Tony (Staines) says:

      ok it’s backed up successfully, now extracting software, then I get Iphone could not be restored. Unknown error occurred(3200) Great.  does not appear to have messed up phone.

  70. Reply
    Jumper2295 says:

    First time trying to download I got an error message and now I have to go somewhere so I’ll have to try again later.

  71. Reply
    Gaz says:

    I attempted to download on my Wi-Fi, but that failed. Then I plugged in wired and it downloaded ok.

    However, it now says “Restoring iPhone apps” on iTunes but my actual iPhone is stuck in a loop whilst it’s doing that. Anyone else had this problem.. And did you just let it carry on? Thanks.

    1. Reply
      catbird59 says:

      It happened to me too… unplug it, and then plug it back in… itunes will tell you it failed, but just hit continue. Worked for me.

  72. Reply
    Abqcleve says:

    I admire and appreciate you folks on the bleeding edge! Waiting until the weekend, but avidly following your experiences….

  73. Reply
    It Caveman52 says:

    A bit of advice here. If you are using a longer USB cable or one that is not an original Apple cable then do not try this update till you can find, buy or borrow and original one. I have seen updates fail on many iPhones and iPads due to flakey cables………Good luck all ……

  74. Reply
    Selena_teresa says:

    I keep getting a message stating that my software is up to date at 4.2.1. I did the iTunes upgrade and rebooted twice and still can’t get iTunes to give 5 as an option. 🙁

    1. Reply
      DMc says:

      Make sure you have iTunes 10.5…..My iTunes wouldn’t update so I had to go to apple directly & download iTunes from there. Hope it helps

    2. Reply
      Anonymous says:

      Connect iPhone to computer
      Go into iTunes

      It will tell you your iTunes version then a note will appear about IOS 5 asking if you want to download and install or just download. (Judging by the comments I chose to download only for now. Took 30 minutes.)

  75. Reply
    Paul says:

    in uk, download started at 18:05, took 1hr15, unpacked fine, various messages in itunes about restoring firmware, factory settings, etc, phone rebooted a couple of times, then a black screen with iPhone across the top appeared. Itunes then prompted for password to backup file before restoring. itunes pop-up stating phone restored, but says phone is empty! iphone starts asking questions about location services, apple account, icloud signup – phone contains no apps or music, but has text messages, email, contacts.  Cant see imessage anywhere…..

  76. Reply
    jord says:

    successfully installed and doing the last few set-up options – now I can’t get past the find my iphone screen – if i tick find it and press next nothing happens, if i tick dont find it then next nothing happens, i can go all the way back and go through again but still cant progress! 

    if i press menu button then it gives me option to start again but then to do that i have to press a button which says erase iphone! any ideas?

  77. Reply
    MichaelWayneF says:

    I have gotten two errors. First it was error 3194 then it was error 3200. My phone has never been jailbroken. Please help!

  78. Reply
    Chanelle Reese says:

    So yeah– I’ve downloaded and installed the update. To my dismay, I don’t have any contacts, my apps were all screwed up and the restore keeps giving me a message “Restoring iPhone Apps”… Yeah I think I just messed up jumping into this so soon.

  79. Reply
    Pthornley says:

    sucessfully downloaded it, yet I keep getting an error message after the software extracts and trys to restore the phone using ios5. I am not an happy bunny

  80. Reply
    Carusotech says:

    mine worked i can play with it, and right now i’m syncing all my apps! took me 6 tries to DL all the way then i get error -50 which wiped the whole ipad then it has to restore the thing, now im just restoring the apps from the PC and all is good! you have to do a whole setup with iclowd and stuff, kinda cool.

  81. Reply
    Claire says:

    I’m on my third attempt now.

    I phone keeps turning on then off, it installs drivers but then tells me there is a problem with the phone

  82. Reply
    Pthornley says:

    again 3200 error message. This is a complete joke. 1 1/2 hours to download and then the update doesnt work.

    1. Reply
      MichaelWayneF says:

      I’ve searched the web and found no answers to this error. I’m going to unintall iTunes and try again. This is not making me happy!

  83. Reply
    Princessdrusilla says:

    iPhone 4 – over an hour updating software, got right to the end then error message stating unexpected interruption and it asks if i want to restore to a previous backup or set up as a new phone… Grrr!!! 

  84. Reply
    Dizzzay says:

    i havnt been able to back up my iphone since july – for some reason an error message since then always came up saying can not be backed up. this is on my apple mac computer)

    just downloaded the update FINALLY but for some reason kept coming up with the error of not being able to restore.

    now its wiped off everything off my phone ….. we’ll see what happens now!!

  85. Reply
    Ajvdp29 says:

    I’m in Florida/USA and it took two times to download…this is my fourth time backing up and restoring…i’ll keep pressing on to see if i get this thing working.

  86. Reply
    Jayleyland says:

    Imessage isnt a separate app it just knows which of your contacts are on Iphones and turns their messages blue and doesnt use any of you sms allowance

  87. Reply
    Bec says:

    2 hours downloading and now “The iPhone ” ” could not be restored. An internal error occurred. GRRRRR